Wheel of Time Reread Redux! Whoo! Yeah! Whoo! Yeah!
Today’s Redux post will cover Chapters 22 and 23 of The Eye of the World, originally reread in this post.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time reread is also now available as an ebook series, except for the portion covering A Memory of Light, which should become available soon.
All Reread Redux posts will contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Once more, Note of Scheduling: Holidays are a thing, and therefore so are hiatuses! As previously mentioned, I plan to have a post for next week (December 23rd), and the blog will then be on hiatus for the next two weeks, resuming January 13th.
Onward!
Chapter 22: A Path Chosen
Redux Commentary
This chapter is possibly the shortest summary/commentary I ever did for the entire original Reread, which is hilarious to me for some reason. I’m perversely impressed by the summary in particular; who knew I could even be that brief?
But then, I was completely right that there was (and is) very little worth actually commenting on in this chapter, and in fact was probably only broken off from the following chapter to keep the latter from getting overly long.
The only thing that jumped out at me at all was this:
Everything for making a fire was gone with his saddlebags, but the cedar trees would yield tinder and a firebow with a bit of work.
Mostly because it reminded me of my earlier conviction that I would so never survive a survival situation. In my yoot, I was in the Girl Scouts (no, really), and I remember they taught us once how to start a fire with a bow drill, and so theoretically I know how to make one, but (a) this was like a thousand years ago, and (b) the adults really did most of the work anyway, so let’s just say I am highly skeptical of my ability to reproduce the lesson in practice. So given that, I will again celebrate my current and hopefully ongoing status of not being stranded in medieval-ish forest lands! Go me!
And… yeah. So short commentary remains short(ish), apparently. Yay!
Chapter 23: Wolfbrother
Redux Commentary
“This is an old thing, boy. Older than Aes Sedai. Older than anybody using the One Power. Old as humankind. Old as wolves.”
The weirdly either/or depiction of wolves in fantasy stories has always been rather fascinating to me. I mentioned in the original commentary that I had recently read A Companion to Wolves by Sarah Monette and Elizabeth Bear, which was true, and while I was mostly making a joke there (which will only make sense if you’ve actually read that book, which I recommend you do), that novel is just one of a very large spread of fantasy stories that have examined the roles of wolves in speculative fiction, and come to vastly different interpretations of it.
There seems to be (to me, anyway) a fairly sharp dichotomy in the way wolves are depicted in fantasy: either they are representative of all that is evil/bad/dangerous to humanity (e.g., classic fairy tales, the majority of Disney films, C.S. Lewis’s Narnia books, most pre-urban fantasy-era werewolves), or they are regarded as formidable and noble (if still fundamentally savage) allies of humanity, as in most urban fantasy works, David Eddings’ Belgarion books, George RR Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire series, and of course WOT itself. Some, like the Harry Potter series, ride the line between wolves being good or bad (though Remus Lupin’s “goodness” is mostly about fighting against his wolfy nature, werewolves are still equated in the books with Rowling’s condemnation of the wizarding world’s prejudice against marginalized groups, and thus inherently implied to be more “good” than they are otherwise), but generally speaking wolves are either a good thing or a bad thing in speculative fiction, with no margin in between.
I read something once (unfortunately I can’t remember where) about why that dichotomy exists, not only in fiction but in real life, and the author’s theory was that it has to do with the eerie similarity that wolves bear to primitive human beings. Like us, they are apex predators, who coordinate and cooperate in groups to bring down prey whom they would otherwise never be able to handle; like us, they form close-knit families/packs who support and, to all appearances, love one another, in startling contrast to their frightening efficiency as hunters. But that similarity, which ought to make them endearing to us (and it does, sometimes) also means they are a threat to us. And in a way, equating them with humanity makes that threat worse.
Because after all, no one knows better than humans what absolute assholes humans can be. And so if wolves are like us in those other ways, what’s to say they aren’t like us in the asshole-y ways as well?
In a weird fashion, I think that wolves fall into the Uncanny Valley of human perception (though obviously not in the general sense that term is used), which is to say that the closer they are to being like us, the scarier and more off-putting they can be perceived to be. So just as there is an often distinct polarity between the way people are depicted (depending on whether you think Hobbes Was Right or Rousseau was—don’t click those links if you want to get anything done today), there is a corresponding divergence between how wolves are represented as well.
The difference, of course, is that the traditional depiction of wolves as being evil has a long and deeply unfortunate impact on actual wolves. And while I can’t honestly claim that my initial delight in WOT’s embrace of wolves as a force for good was originally influenced by that knowledge, it certainly is now.
Maybe it’s sappy or whatever, but as a general rule I have always infinitely preferred the stories that treated wolves as good (or at least neutral) entities to the ones that used them as convenient villains and/or henchmen to Evil™. Maybe because anything that can inspire that level of uneasiness and, yes, fear in human beings is probably something worthy of respect at the very least. Because we are arrogant bastards who at least metaphorically need to be taken down a peg or two, dontcha know.
Plus, you know. As I said originally, talking to wolves? SUPER COOL. Even if (as I also said) I can’t logically blame Perrin for being super freaked out about it.
(I might possibly be okay with blaming him for taking approximately thirteen books to get over his freaked-outedness, though. Sheesh.)
“Every wolf remembers the history of all wolves, or at least the shape of it. Like I said, it can’t be put into words very well. They remember running down prey side-by-side with men, but it was so long ago that it’s more like the shadow of a shadow than a memory.”
“That’s very interesting,” Egwene said, and Elyas looked at her sharply. “No, I mean it. It is.” She wet her lips. “Could… ah… could you teach us to talk to them?”
AHAHAHA. Oh, Egwene. Always the Ooh Ooh Girl. No matter what the hell it is, she wants to learn about it. *is fond*
Lastly, I know it’s an entirely minor point, but I’m mildly disappointed that we never meet up with Burn again. Presumably he died when he went off to fight Trollocs alone and that’s why we never come across him again, but it would have been kind of nicely bookend-y for him to have shown up for Perrin’s giant wolf army party at the end of the series, and acknowledge that he was wrong about him all that time ago.
But, well. It’s pretty unimportant in the grand scheme of things. Especially since Hopper is introduced here in the very first scene of Perrin + wolves, and that’s a thing that goes on till very nearly the end. (Sigh, sniffle.)
And that’s the show for now, kiddies! Try not to panic about all the Christmas/Hanukkah/Winter Solstice/office party/whatever gifts you probably still have to buy, and I’ll see you next Tuesday!
Wolves are such beautiful animals. I remember in the mid-1990’s visiting my uncle’s ranch and seeing adorable pups that had recently been born. My uncle said they were part wolf but would be fine as pets. They probably made wonderful companions to ranchers nearby. The eyes and the face of the pups seemed to more wolf than domesticated dog.
I did find it annoying it took SO long for Perrin to accept his role as part of the wolf pack. Of course, it seemed it took a long time for lots of things to happen in WOT!
Until you mentioned that Burn wasn’t heard from again I had forgotten he simply left and never returned. It would have been helpful to know where he had gone and what ultimately happened to him.
Wolf-fascination might also be related to the fact that humans apparently DID domesticate some few wolves thousands of years ago – from which we have selectively bred dogs! These are said to be the earliest domesticated species. So humans have known both “good” (i.e., tame and helpful) and “bad” (feral and dangerous) wolves for a long, long time – maybe long enough for that knowledge to mold some of our genetic make-up.
These are not very exciting chapters. Hard to know what to say….
I do like the contrast between Perrin (strong and silent) and the Ooh Ooh girl. Not sure that Egwene ever “gets” Perrin, which adds that much more spice to Perrin schooling her in the awesome tower dream scene in ToM.
I liked the opening of a new front in the world building – communication with wolves.
I think another part of that wolf dichotomy is our relationship with dogs. Wolves and dogs obviously have a lot in common, and it’s easy to see (and use in fiction) wolves as either the evil counterpart to Man’s best friend (like orcs to elves) or as just a wilder but still friendly version of the domesticted dog.
The other potential reason that wolves are less frequently portrayed as evil these days is we’re further away from wolves being a real threat to people. It would be a lot harder to write wolves as being good if your cousin was killed by wolves and your neighbors lost half their flock to the same pack. Wolves ARE predators after all, and we don’t care for competition. These days the closest a modern city dweller comes to a wolf is in movies with shiny vampires and buff werewolves.
What is interesting is that while it takes Perrin 13 books to accept the wolf in him, it takes only half a chapter for the development to kick in. No gradual awakening of powers (although he’s not there yet, and the next chapter develops the ability some more), but an almost immediate response as soon as someone points out that the ability is there.
In that sense, it is very different from the One Power. The Power manifests itself occassionally, gradually becoming more powerful (pun intended), and without training, the wielder will most likely die. The Wolfbrother feature activates upon knowledge of it, it seems.
Then again, Perrin’s case is entirely different from Elias and Noam.
Nevertheless, it always struck me as very sudden, this whole development. Just my thoughts…
I think wolves and dragons get kind of the same treatment – either noble, wise mystical creatures, or destroyers.
Somebody I work with has done this thing where he goes and pets wolves (or something like that) at a nature sanctuary…I never really realized how BIG wolves are until I saw the pictures.
@@@@@RobMRobM, The tower fight scene when Perrin outdoes all the Aes Sedai is one of my favorite in the whole series, a total payoff for all the reading of telaranrhoid training the Power Girls go through and simple, unassuming Perrin completely blows them away in terms of control AND treats them like children, mirroring Egwene’s attitude in reality. THEN NEVER EXPLAINS IT! Just lets it sit there between Egween and him like it is normal, while Egwene is left to wonder how, when, why, what the?
re: wolves – fictional or otherwise
Yeah, I’m in the ” go Wolves!” camp. Always have been. Wolves are awesome!
re: survival skills
I’m kinda neither her nor there (ain’t I always?) re: survival. The “keeping warm”, “find your way”, “build something approximating a somewhat waterproof hut” I have down relatively well. Especially considering my pampered first world ways. The “catch food”, “kill food”, “don’t get turned into food” part…? Little more tricky, that.
But hey, in an apocalypse of doomy doom you can always trade your near infinite wealth of pop culture references for food right? Right? Hello?
Oh, crap…!
Speaking of Perrin, is this the first time we see Perrin’s wolf icon?
@9–Yes, it is. I just checked my copy of the book. :)
Somewhere around this point in my very first read through the book, I came to the conclusion that Perrin was going to hook up with Egwene. Heh, heh, silly me. But you have to admit it’s not that farfetched of an idea, given the way the plot just split into different threads. I’m shipping Pegwene.
@11 Don’t forget the promise they make to dance together at Sunday! Perrin would never do that to Rand though, even if he did have any feelings he would hide them well I think.
If I got lost in the woods, I doubt I’d last longer than my fat reserves
Leigh, after reading your commentary I hope somebody in Hollywood develops a Planet Apes type of movie with wolves instead of Apes. If done well, that would be great story.
Jorgecuervos @7: An important reason that Perrin was so skilled in the World of Dreams when he meets up with Egwene in ToM was that he was forced. Early on ToM, Perrin came to the realization that he would need to confront Slayer in the World of Dreams. He also acknowledged that at that point in the story, Slayer was much more skilled than Perrin. This is why he has Hopper force him.
Egwene acknowledged that she, Elayne and Nynaeve were forced in their training with the One Power. That was a major reason that they skill with the Power grew so quickly. Although Egwene learned a lot on her own (when she entered the World of Dreams without permission in LoC), most of her study in the World of Dreams was under the controlled tutelage of the Wise Ones. They had no intention of forcing Egwene in the World of Dreams.
Further, the Wise Ones were not training her to fight in the World of Dreams. This is why the Ash’aman and damanae are inherently better in the context of battle. The training the White Tower taught its initiatives did not emphasize channeling as a means of warfare. Had the Wise Ones emphasized Egwene’s training in the context of preparattion for battles in the World of Dreams, then Egwene may have become as proficient as Perrin was when it came to battle in the World of Dreams.
It is possible that had Egwene had a teacher who forced her like Hopper was able to with Perrin, she would have been equally adept at the World of Dreams. Nevertheless, I will acknowledge that Perrin has one distinct advantage over Egwene. Unlike Egwene, Perrin does not rely on channeling. After her confrontation with Perrin, Egwene admits that in the World of Dreams, sometimes it is easier to do things without the Power. Without her interaction with Perrin during the World of Dreams Battle, I think Mesaana would have gotten the best of Egwene. Part of Egwene’s conversation with Perrin helped her realize that she was not as helpless as she thought when Messana “collered” Egwene.
Thanks for reading my musings,
AndrewB
Hahaha Elyas caught Egwene in a lie and she covered her tracks fast. Shows that wolves and wolfbrothers can smell a lie.
I loved “Wolfbrother,” especially on a first read. Wolves are considered monstrous in the Two Rivers (not without cause, as Nick31 notes), and here’s someone who doesn’t deny their predatory nature yet befriends and lives among them. That kind of thing never fails to delight me, and Elyas is a fun character. I even dreamed about this scene last night, apparently in anticipation of you covering it today.
Sweet, sweet TV Tropes. I’ve never considered it a time sink, though I will if it convinces me to start watching Fullmetal Alchemist, grr. And I’m glad to have clicked those links, having assumed that the “Hobbes” being referenced was the tiger from Calvin and Hobbes, whose philosophy includes “We live to devour each other alive.”
The wolves know Eg is lying because they can read Perrin’s mind.
The difference between good and bad wolves could also be related to the difference between shamanistic hunter/gatherers and farmers.
For hunters wolves are similar and can be allies as dogs. Shamanistic animal spirits are helpful if you treat them respectfully.
For farmers there is a contrast between the domesticated fields and villages and the dangerous wild woods. Wolves are intruders from the hostile world outside the village who steal sheep.
Do the wolves count Bela or is this a remnant of the fourth boy who was removed from the story?
The German translation is split after chapter 22, but From the Two Rivers ends after chapter 23. I like the German split better. The short chapters that tell where everybody is after the party split up are perfect as the end of a book. Wolfbrother starts something new and should be the beginning of a book, not the end. Are there other translations that split the book in a different place?
I suspect wolves as predators fall somewhere between the full apex predators, such as the lion and tiger, which are revered as well as feared in African and Asian folklore, and the crocodile which is revered and feared in Papua New Guinean and Australian Aboriginal folklore and the subsidiary predators, such as the spotted hyena, which is feared and most often mocked in African folklore – in spite of being on of the most efficient predators of the Serengeti. So wolves are between the two options of fearing and revering and fearing and mocking.
JRRT uses the wolf as an example of the feral threat to humankind, riffing off the European traditions; Robert Jordan riffs off the American traditions where it is not so much of a threat, largely due, according to Man the Hunted by Hart and Sussman, humans haven’t mastered technology which left the wolves in no doubt it was better to keep clear, which they didn’t need to in Europe: wolves had hunted humans successfully in Europe for quite some time so had adapted.
Perrin does take a long time to come to to terms with the whole wolf thing but in fairness I don’t think Noam and Elyas would fill me with confidence either. I’d love the yellow eyes though.
@RobMRobM and jorgecuervos totally agree on that TOM fight scene being awesome. Egwene deserved a little humbling for trying to tie up Perrin like that.
And Ooh Ooh Girl? Why is Egwene the Ooh Ooh Girl?
@18 – that is a Leigh-ism from the initial Re-Read. Leigh visualized Egwene as the girl in the front row of class who raises her hand and says “Ooh Ooh pick me” every time the teacher asks a question.
AeronaGreenjoy: Hobbes the tiger is actually called after Hobbes the philosopher. (And Calvin is called after John Calvin the theologian, though the connection there is rather more obscure.)
I know, but the discussion of predatory carnivores made my mind leap immediately to the tiger.
birgit @16
I was wondering about “you three” also.
Note introduction of the Black Ajah by Elyas.
Nothing like having your computer’s motherboard die and have to get a new computer and transfer all your files and such to interfere with catching up on the Reread Redux! :P
*chuckles* Ah, if only we knew how seldom short chapters would be later on, we’d relish these more…personally I rather liked the chapter despite its shortness. Even without the hindsight we get on a re-read of knowing what Perrin and Egwene’s interactions would be like later on, I found it fascinating to see these two together here. Egwene’s feelings about Mat were more than clear (and as we know at this point, quite justified), while Rand vacillates between fondness and sweet affection for whom she thinks will be her future husband and being dismissed as just another woolhead. But her feelings regarding Perrin have been a cipher until now. Considering how on the one hand he’s big and strong and can be a great protector, and on the other he’s quiet, thoughtful, and intelligent most of the time, I always thought Egwene would appreciate these qualities in him, and that if they weren’t friends before, they could become so once she got to see more of them, away from Rand and Mat.
And to a point I was right. This chapter does highlight how they both have Two Rivers survival knowledge, but that she still needs (and appreciates) Perrin’s help. If not for his woods skills than for his ability to come up with a plan and be decisive when needed. It’s telling how quickly she defers to him (even if she goes back on it a bit by the end of the chapter) and how this is the first taste of leadership for Perrin–talk about foreshadowing! Speaking of, while much was made of Nynaeve and even Egwene’s ability to track, I have to say the scene where Perrin is moving between the groves rather seemed wolf-like to me… Anyway, Perrin’s plan was a very good one, if not for the Whitecloaks it would have worked, especially once they met Elyas and he got them on the right path to Caemlyn, and I rather wish we’d gotten to see more of him and Egwene in future. Not that the scene in ToM wasn’t awesome.
Everyone has pretty much covered wolves already (in so few comments!) and why they are alternately feared and revered, so all I will say is, while I grew up on fairy tales, Narnia, and other sources that made them seem only savage villains, once I started encountering the more noble (albeit still fierce and powerful) incarnations in urban fantasy and series like the Belgariad, I didn’t have much difficulty adjusting my thinking. Part of this could be my love for and affinity with animals, or the fact that I associate wolves with dogs, but I think it’s also because of my respect for them as predators–and the fact I know animals aren’t malicious or targeting people out of spite. Since they are neutral and not doing it deliberately, then it’s easy for me to admire them, or to think that their abilities could be quite useful in an ally.
And I have to say the urban fantasies of today do a wonderful job of actually balancing both views–that even as the werewolves in them are helpful allies and sometimes actual heroes, the authors never let us forget the animal side to their nature. And the best ones do this without moralizing–i.e., they show how deadly and dangerous wolves can be without condemning this as evil or cruel. Villainous ones exist, but they exist because of what they do with their powers and how they give in to and employ their wolven natures, not simply because they are wolves, so it remains based on character and motivation, as it should be. For the heroic ones it is simply a matter of having wild impulses without allowing them to dominate or dictate how you think and act. It makes for a fascinating, compelling, and dramatic plot.
That Perrin ends up following the same arc is why it’s easy for us to admire the wolves, and to want him to get over his fears and worries quicker…but aside from what has already been commented on as to why this would be difficult for him (both his upbringing and homeland and the examples of wolfbrothers he’s met), such a story can’t be rushed. Jordan may have been typically long-winded and glacially-paced, but even if he’d been shorter and faster, a life change such as this, and the education and character growth required both to understand and accept such a view of yourself and the world, and to then make use of these new abilities without losing your balance, is something that would only be believable with time and work put into it.
The irony of course is that Perrin ends up learning each wolfbrother determines his balance in a manner unique to him, so that he’s only in danger of losing himself if he wants to be lost or doesn’t know what he’s doing because he keeps refusing to accept it. But based on the information he had at the time, his fears were justified, so it’s very much a case of the answer being with him all along, but one he could never learn or accept without experience, living through it and learning it the hard way.
Regarding Egwene…LOL, I’d completely forgotten that she asked about talking with wolves and wanting to learn. Yes it’s more Ooh Ooh Girl, but it’s very intriguing to me that Egwene would even profess an interest at all, considering either her Two Rivers upbringing or the same mistaken belief–probably based on Darkhounds–that wolves are of the Shadow which is encountered with the Whitecloaks clearly make her uneasy and afraid. It suggests an ability to overcome prejudice, and of course a stubborn determination, both things we see her have later, or at least attempt to do so in the case of prejudice. And at the same time she couldn’t help but be fascinated by more knowledge, another ability to learn, or at least to understand something new and different. (The part with catching her lying was just hilarious, even if it did make things tense until it was revealed Elyas and the wolves were against the Shadow.)
I also have to wonder what would have happened if Egwene had stayed with Perrin on his path. Obviously she couldn’t learn to speak to wolves, and she had to learn to be an Aes Sedai because of the dangers of being left untrained in the Power (as well as for story reasons), but it otherwise could have made for a very different and intriguing story. It could have helped her learn more about TAR sooner (the skills and abilities inherent to it as opposed to using the Power there), so that she was better prepared for fights there later, it could have let her help ease Perrin’s fears and accept his wolfbrother nature sooner, it would have had her on hand to help protect him from the Forsaken (especially Lanfear), and it could even have led to some interesting note-comparison on her Dreams vs. his wolf-dream visions. But that is probably why Jordan split them up–a similar power set as far as divinaton went, so that he felt it better to put them in different plot threads so that each group had someone with a connection to future-telling. That and the fact she really needed her Aiel Wise One training for reasons of character growth as much as dreamwalking. And of course for them to do what I described, there’d have to be communication and open interaction, and we can’t have that this early in the game! Still, it’s fun to think about. AU fanfiction!
I’d also forgotten about Burn. Considering how many things from TEotW got brought back in Sanderson’s books, and specifically how much he focused on Perrin, it’s odd no more was mentioned about him. A deliberate choice, or did he forget him during his re-read of the series and Team Jordan didn’t think it important enough to mention?
@5 Bouke: That is indeed interesting. It most likely reflects the nature of the plots Jordan wanted. As far as the One Power-users go, he seemed less interested in having the characters angst about their abilities–save for Nynaeve’s early fear of the Power/Aes Sedai as Darkfriends, and Rand’s issues with the taint and how men are viewed, which is obviously mostly unrelated to the abilities themselves and more the wider ramifications of them and how the world treats them (and the taint was imposed by an outside source so doesn’t count).
With Perrin, Jordan clearly wanted to explore reluctance and insecurity on the part of the special-ability character; while to various degrees all the ta’veren resisted their heroic status or specific aspects of it, it seemed Jordan wanted to approach it from a different angle with Perrin. Mat just didn’t want to have responsibility; Rand was happy to help others and save the world, he just hated the price/the treatment he received from others/everything the Shadow put him and the world through. So with Mat he gave him his memories quickly (relatively so, compared to the One Power training of the others) but then had him take a long to accept being a battle leader and hero; Rand took time learning the Power because of his lack of a teacher (barring serendipitous deus ex machinas that one could argue was the beginning of Lews Therin leaking through if not the Pattern needing it to happen) but then had to spend many books dealing with the burdens of being a Messiah doomed to go mad, and die for a world that hated and feared him. In both cases their abilities were tied into what they had to do to save the world from the Shadow, and into their central character concepts (great military might and strategy meant to be heroic and used to protect others given to someone who wanted nothing to do with combat or anyone but himself; the taint and its effects as well as the legacy of the Dragon being the biggest reason why Rand came so close to breaking).
But with Perrin his thing has always been his refusal of leadership–not because he is selfish like Mat or hates how he is treated because of the role like Rand, but because he simply doesn’t want to lead and doesn’t believe he deserves to be one–and his overall insecurity regarding his ‘slow’ thought processes vs. his massive size and ability to harm others. Most of this really has nothing to do with being a wolf, and Perrin’s powers didn’t really become critical until he faced Slayer, and during the Last Battle. So I think instead Jordan wanted to just give him his abilities outright, then deal with the fallout over time, instead of pacing out the power acquisition, because he didn’t want Perrin to get used to being a wolfbrother the way Rand did the Power and Mat his memories. Give it to him outright, then let him deal with the ramifications, because doing so ties into his central character arc. Because the wolf pack mentality definitely influences his ability to be a leader and see why it is necessary, and the balance between a wolf’s savagery and nobility drives right at the heart of Perrin’s creation/destruction, careful thought/harmful strength dichotomies.
With Mat and Rand, Jordan wanted to use the magical abilities he gave them as part of their direct conflicts with their destinies; with Perrin, he wanted to show someone who just didn’t want to be a hero as a matter of course, and use their magical ability first as a reflection of their dilemma, then their means of resolving it. If he’d learned it gradually the way Mat and Rand did, the difference wouldn’t have been as dramatic, and perhaps would not have let him learn the lesson he needed to. At least that’s my theory. Whether it works or not depends on the reader, but at least it’s different than the other characters.
@11 Ways, @12 Black Camel: Hah! I was thinking along the same lines myself when I was indulging in “What would have happened if Egwene stayed with Perrin?” above. It certainly would have made things very different if he’d fallen for her (after she and Rand became just friends) instead of Faile. I wonder if Jordan might have been considering it, based on those hints, and the fact that in Elyas she has an example of a wolfbrother Warder. Of course even aside from the Reds’ reaction, the fact being a wolfbrother seems to take precedence over being a Warder as far as loyalty goes would make it problematic. But it could have been he planned Perrin to be Egwene’s Warder before he came up with Faile or hooking her up with Gawyn. Boy, that would really have changed the story! Would Egwene have still sacrificed herself if she did bond him? If so, could Perrin have overcome the Warder rage because of his wolfbrotherhood, or would he have gone out in a blaze of glory attacking Slayer and Lanfear? Would she have released him before dying, or would neither of them have died because he wouldn’t have done what Gawyn did? If she had died but he had not, would memory of his love for her have enabled him to overcome Lanfear’s Compulsion the way his love for Faile did? I don’t know if that story would have worked out, or been as satisfying, but it’s certainly interesting to think about.
@16 birgit: You could be right, but Kainos @14 is also right–we know Perrin can later tell when people are lying or at least not telling the full truth based on their scents. So even if they read Perrin’s mind, they also could likely smell Egwene’s duplicitous scent. Not to mention Elyas plain knows she’s lying because as we learn later, he lived in Saldaea for a time so he knows very well they aren’t from there.
I also expect the wolves must be counting Bela; she is indeed with them, and a wolf would probably consider the idea of helping a horse rather than hunting and eating it a waste of time. And I can’t see a reference to Dannil still being left in at this late a juncture (though it’s true there were a number of early authorial gaffes which had to be corrected in later editions, including in this very book, so who knows).
@RobMRobM – Haha oh righto then. That totally fits Egwene.
Oh and some really good insights there macster. Nice work.
Just to add my two cents to this discussion, I too loved that Perrin was able to communicate with the wolves and I was also very frustrated with how long he took to accept it. Yes, it was understandable, but for me, being able to communicate with wolves would be amazing which I would immediately embrace :). Also, thank you very much Leigh, I am very much enjoying this reread redux.
@11: The name of this ‘ship is clearly ‘Perrigwen’ for maximum punnage.
I did not know that the original plan featured a fourth boy. That would mean that the company had nine members, of course…
macster @23, I like your theory! Do we have any indication from interviews or statements that this is indeed what RJ had in mind?